Dialog with Vaughn Ohlman, part deux

In a previous post, Vaughn Ohlman was kind enough to respond to some of the concerns I expressed. His comments (and my response) can be seen below:

One big issue in your above post is headcoverings, about which I have two immediate things to say: 

1) Headcoverings is taught in a didactic, not narrative, passage, so I am confused as to why you are bringing it up.

  2) I would refer much of your question to RC Sproul SR:

 The wearing of fabric head coverings in worship was universally the practice of Christian women until the twentieth century. What happened? Did we suddenly find some biblical truth to which the saints for thousands of years were blind? Or were our biblical views of women gradually eroded by the modern feminist movement that has infiltrated the Church...? - R.C. Sproul Sr.

My response to this is below:

Regarding your first point, there are numerous ways in which I could respond. I could contend the whole issue of "head coverings" as such. The Greek text does not actually say "head-coverings" anywhere in I Cor. 11, and that still remains a widely disputed text within Paul's letter to the Corinthian church. But even if I were to agree with that translation, your concern about it being a didactic passage, and not a narrative passage, is not above reproach either. One's interpretation of historical events necessitates an understanding of the context, culture, and occasion in which Paul's letter was written, just as much as the didactic commandments which Moses recorded in the Torah, and therefore can be legitimately understood as narrative in that broad sense (as viewed by future generations, like us today). But you are correct in that Paul's statements within I Cor. 11 are didactic. I don't deny that at all. I affirm that they were indeed didactic. But just because they were didactic, does not necessitate that the context, culture, and occasion in which is was originally delivered is without limitations in it's application for Christians in a different context, culture, and occasion. As a professed theonomist, I am sure that you are aware that there must be some limitations in applying didactic passages of Scripture. For example, the didactic commandments which Moses recorded in the Torah ought not to be applied verbatim today. Moses did not write the Torah to us today, but he did write it for us today. That is an important distinction to make in defense of dogmatic claims about morally binding (i.e. standing) laws. There are contextual and cultural limitations inherent with the Torah as a whole, which is why the Westminster Divines (many of whom were theonomic) held that only the general equity of the judicial laws (within Torah) were morally binding. That is to say, even though the judicial laws were didactic, they are only morally binding outside of the context and culture in which they were delivered insofar as they illustrated God's moral character (i.e. His "moral law"). And the application varied from culture to culture, generation to generation. I would argue that the same is true with every didactic passage of Scripture, including  those found in 1st Corinthians 11.

Paul did not write to the church of Corinth in a vacuum. First Corinthians, as we know it, was the second letter to that church (I Cor. 5:9). And two events led Paul to write it. First, Paul had received a report from Chloe's people indicating that there was trouble in the church (I Cor. 1:11; 11:18). (Notice the similar phrase repeated by Paul in the first and eleventh chapter, the chapter in which "head-coverings" are mentioned.) Second, members of that Corinthian congregation had contacted Paul in writing (I Cor. 7:1), asking him for counsel on various culturally sensitive issues. Those congregational concerns span from 7:1 to 16:12, and in no way should every didactic answer to their written questions to Paul be interpreted as Paul writing his answer to us today. For example, in I Cor. 7:26-31, Paul writes to them didactically, saying:

I think that in view of the present distress it is good for a person to remain as he is. Are you bound to a wife? Do not seek to be free. Are you free from a wife? Do not seek a wife. But if you do marry, you have not sinned, and if a betrothed woman marries, she has not sinned. Yet those who marry will have worldly troubles, and I would spare you that. This is what I mean, brothers: the appointed time has grown very short. From now on, let those who have wives live as though they had none, and those who mourn as though they were not mourning, and those who rejoice as though they were not rejoicing, and those who buy as though they had no goods, and those who deal with the world as though they had no dealings with it. For the present form of this world is passing away.

I have already discussed this "passing away" of the present "world" in numerous posts (here, here, here, here, here, and most importantly here), which explains the time constraints of this "present distress" mentioned by Paul. Irregardless of whatever eschatological agreements or disagreements there might be between us, clearly, whatever cultural concerns undergird these "didactic passages," it is awkward to argue that Paul wanted all Christians, of every culture, of every age, to not seek a wife (as he clearly says above). Just because the passage is didactic to those in Corinth, that does not mean Paul meant it to be didactic to those in Sheboygan, Wisconsin in the year 2013. Admittedly, there is general equity to all of Paul's didactic statements, and insofar as we can deduce Paul's application of God's moral law, there is an example set before our very eyes of deducing the general equity of such moral laws for our culturally relevant circumstances; but only once they can in fact be deemed as exegetically tenable moral laws of God. But such an application today can hardly be justified by a simplistic claim of any passage being "didactic." 

The Christian's understanding of this principle affects every interpretation of New Testament history, whether the much larger historical narrative has been deposited in the Church in the form of didactic letters or not. Our understanding of what Paul taught them, in Corinth, at that time, helps Christians today understand the way in which Paul's didactic statements do and do not apply today. And to insist on doing so is not at all a contradiction of 1st Timothy 3:16, as you claim on your blog. If all Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness -- it is only profitable insofar as it is understood in the historical and cultural context of the entire letter. If the context undergirding those historical events does not necessitate it's interpretation as a standing law, it's not profitable to teach it as a standing law. It then becomes profitable for reproof and correction of those who are training others foolishly under the guise of "righteousness." 

This is manifest in a variety of ways within 1st Corinthians itself. Regarding other concerns of the Corinthian congregation presented to Paul in writing, every passage between 7:1 and 16:12 can easily be misunderstood and misinterpreted as standing laws if not handled carefully. The perspicuity of such passages is not always as great as our modern baptistic culture claims. With every one of the "didactic" statements from Paul to the congregation of Corinth, whether it's a statement about celibacy, singleness, and marriage (I Cor. 7), or food offered to idols (I Cor. 8), liberty of conscience (10:29), praying or prophesying with "head-coverings" (11:4-5), getting drunk at the Lord's Supper (11:21), eating at home (11:34), the gift of tongues and prophecy in worship (Ch. 12-14), or the claims of some who say there is no resurrection of the dead (15:12), the occasion of all those statements must be interpreted in light of the letter's own historical and cultural context.

Regarding the specific passages pertaining to "head-coverings," I want to point out my own position, just so I am not misunderstood. Even though I do not personally believe Paul is referring to "head-coverings" in I Cor. 11, I do not believe that women today who wear head-coverings in worship are sinning. In fact, as far as I can tell, it's a public display of their love of obeying God (or what they believe God's Word requires of them). And to that degree, I commend them for holding firm to their personal conviction about the didactic elements of God's Word to them. But I do not believe it is exegetically or historically tenable to argue that such a practice has always been required by God's moral law, and that Paul directed those didactic statements to Christians in Sheboygan, Wisconsin as well; nor do I believe it is reasonable to claim dogmatically that to depart from such a practice is "dangerous" (as you claim on your blog). I believe that teaching the moral duty of such a practice in all christian churches is creating an unnecessarily embarrassing subculture of Christianity which does not edify all christian churches or the families therein. And that which does not edify, ought not to be enforced upon all Christian churches or presented as a standing law for all Christians in public worship.

Concerning your second point, in referencing RC Sproul Sr. as your source of justifying 19 centuries of tradition, his statement that "The wearing of fabric head coverings in worship was universally the practice of Christian women until the twentieth century," is a fabricated construct of his imagination (pun intended). Not only is that not true, historically; it is also almost too broad to qualify with such absolute "universal" certainty. It is far easier to falsify such an exaggerated claim, given the breadth of Christianity throughout history. Of course, Sproul Sr. is notorious for making such broad, sweeping, oversimplified statements to accomplish his own didactic purposes. And I am not surprised that he once made such a statement. I also wouldn't be surprised if he has changed his mind since.

*  *  *  *  *  *  *

Ohlman also commented about my initial concern, namely his claim that there is one aspect of redemptive historical hermeneutics which, as he says, "rejects the whole cloth rejection of example itself." His comments in that regard are below: 

I think underlying this issue we have a difference of what this method actually is. The book I actually read explaining the redemptive hisotrical method and contrasting it with the previous hermeneutic said two things:
 1) That the old commentators (Calvin et al) did NOT use the redemptive historical method and
 2) That the RH method rejected narrative examples *completely*. 
If either or both of these are wrong, then my source was wrong. The paper you reference was not meant to deal, in detail, with this issue. Nor was it a grand reference paper. It was meant to layout my hermeneutic for dealing with narrative examples. In my book, the Covenant of Betrothal, I propose a whole list of ways in which I believe narrative examples must be examined for their use as normative for us today. I don't know if you had a chance to examine the whole list. 
I have since worked on a larger paper which I can send you if you are interested.

My response to those statements are found below:

Regarding your first point, I don't see how relevant it is for older commentators, such as John Calvin, to have used the Redemptive Historical method of interpreting Scripture in order for it to remain a valid approach. My main point in emphasizing it's validity was to clarify that it does not conflict with theonomic ethics per se, at least not Greg Bahnsen's thesis on theonomic ethics (which you promote on your blog). I may have misunderstood your position, but the statement on your blog against RH clearly inferred a contradiction between RH and theonomic principles of interpretation. In fact, I would argue that RH in connection with Greg Bahnsen's thesis actually helps guard against interpreting historical narratives and didactic passages foolishly as standing laws for all cultures at all times.

Regarding your second point, I believe your source was indeed mistaken. Perhaps that statement was originally written hyperbolically by the author to simplify a contrast with another hermeneutical principle. As you may already know, many faithful reformed theologians such as G. Vos have been been proponents of RH, without needing to reject historical examples completely. Nor, with men like Vos, was there a conflict with theonomic ethics per se. 

Regarding your final statements, I am interested in learning more about your hermeneutical approach to historical narratives. I have read much of the online version of your book, The Covenant of Betrothal, and I didn't consider it to be very clear in regard to hermeneutical principles and guidelines. In fact, I thought the book took far too much for granted. But there is only so much that I am able to gather from the resources on your blog, especially since those resources you provided have not been geared toward explaining my concerns in detail. And so, I'm hopeful that the larger paper you recommended would help provide that much-needed clarity. I will contact you offline for that resource.

Vaughn Ohlman responds

Below is a response to Vaughn Ohlman, the "practical theonomist" who commented on one of my earlier posts regarding his biblical hermeneutic. Vaughn's comments, typos and all, can be found in this post, and are displayed below as well:

I am afraid that you argue against a bit of a straw man here. I do not reject, as you suppose, the idea that "cannot be interpreted as standing laws which are normative for Christians ethics in all generations, but must be interpreted in light of their own redemptive-historical context."

That was not what the issue was. What I reject is the whole-cloth rejection of example itself. Where the Scripture, and the commentators, are free to point to example after example, and even call each of us to be an example for other Christians, the particular view I reject reject all example, everywhere.

I firmly believe that all examples must be taken in their context; altho you and I might disagree as to what that context is and how it applies. But I do not reject context. Indeed I propose it in the very same paper. 

BTW, in as much as the issue of headcoverings is dealt with in a didactic text, and was held pretty uniformly by the Christian church for the first 1900 or so years of its existence, I am a bit surprised that you put it in this context.

Below is my response to Ohlman:

Vaughn, 

Thanks for commenting. If you're willing, let's keep this dialog going, now that I have your attention. 

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough in my critique of your position. Perhaps I was mistaken too. If I am mistaken, I will apologize publicly on this forum. And I would hope that your misunderstandings of my position, which are worthy of apology, would be made public as well. But to get to the point of contention, in context, I did not mean to infer that you always interpret historical narratives as standing laws. In fact, I even alluded to the fact that I don't think you always interpret historical narratives that way. But I concluded that in doing so, given your stated rejection of one aspect of redemptive historical interpretation, such would be suspect of arbitrariness, and even inconsistency insofar as it is indeed arbitrary. 

I also did not mean to infer that you deny the validity of examples being "taken in their context." My contention was two fold, the one leading into the other: 

First, your claim about one aspect of "redemptive historical" methodology contradicting second Tim. 3 16-17 is simply not true, either logically or "methodologically." And you don't explain, anywhere in your writings, in what way there is a logical contradiction. You merely state it. That was the first red flag which I noticed. Furthermore, I only mentioned that "historical narratives per se cannot be interpreted as standing laws which are normative for Christian ethics in all generations..." The "per se" part is important for understanding my argument properly. I too reject the whole-cloth rejection of example itself, yet I don't think your specific rejection of one aspect of "redemptive historical" methodology justifies your claim that it "contradicts" first timothy 3:16-17.

Second, from a theonomic hermeneutic, of which I consider myself a student (particularly of Bahnsen's methodology, with minor reservations), I can confidently say that Bahnsen's approach to hermeneutics in connection with theonomic ethics most certainly does not comport with yours regarding courtship/marriage, head-coverings for women, and absolute patriarchal authority. And keep in mind that my second point, following from the first, was that Bahnsen actually critiques important aspects of your *official* position on courtship/marriage, head-coverings, and patriarchal authority as being inconsistent in principle. His hermeneutics course explains the necessity, as well as the strengths and weaknesses of the one aspect of redemptive historical methodology which you apparently reject. If you have not studied that course, you may want to consider doing so as long as you endorse Greg Bahsnen's works of theonomy in Christian ethics. His course on Biblical hermeneutics ties them both together. 

Yes, you and I may disagree as to what the "biblical context" is concerning a historical narrative, and we might even disagree with how it applies. (I happen to be fascinated with narrative criticism, and so I realize there may be huge disagreements between us in that area alone.) But logically, either one of us is right, or we're both wrong. We can't both be right if our hermeneutical convictions are diametrically opposed. And I think it's embarrassing to endorse Greg Bahnsen's methodology, and even the "Redemptive historical" methodology, and yet reach some of the sweeping conclusions that you propose publicly. You make all sorts of sweeping generalizations (i.e. logical fallacies) throughout your writings, particularly in issues which treat historical narratives as teaching or endorsing normative Christian ethics. 

Take, for an example, your last sweeping generalization. You wrote, saying that "the issue of head coverings ...was held pretty uniformly by the Christian church for the first 1900 years of its existence." Well, are you absolutely sure about that? Or are you just "pretty" sure? Was it 1900 years or 1900 "or so" years? 

And with the widespread range of Christianity in world history, at what point (or percentage) does its practice in history justify it's validity for normative practice?  In your view, at what point (or percentage) does a particular practice constitute "uniformity" -- especially enough uniformity to justify it's normativity for Christian ethics today? If 1900 years of future history within the Christian church contained less "uniformity" to that particular practice, would that invalidate it's essential normativity for Christian ethics? If not, why bother mentioning 1900 years of it being "pretty uniform" in the first place? My own position is that, even if there were 1900 years of "pretty uniform" practice of headcoverings in Christian worship (which is a nebulous proposition to begin with), that history does not prove normativity for Christian ethics today, or in the future. 

And what evidence do you have to support such a sweeping claim about uniformity, which scholars such as Fee, Witherington III, Keener, Morris, and Plummer missed? In fact, Fee makes very clear in his commentary (NICNT) that there is great uncertainty about prevailing customs such as "headcoverings" among Christians, Jews, and Gentile unbelievers within 1st century Greek and Jewish culture. Yes, there is evidence of a post-100A.D. traditional tallith being worn among Jews on certain occasions, such as at weddings, funerals, and prayer. But it is not true, historically, that Jewish and Greek women were always veiled in public, and the argument that they ought to have been is just as lousy as arguing for it in private. We simply don't have cogent evidence of such sweeping claims (which others have made, embarrassingly). It's conjecture. You can cite Nicodemus ben Gorion and the Targum's values all you want (as you did in your article on headcoverings), but there is evidence to the contrary as well. "Headcoverings," according to Oepke (TWOT) and other 1st century scholars, was a custom that varied widely, and therefore can hardly provide support for Paul endorsing it as normative for Christian ethics for all time and in all "christian" cultures. We certainly do not find it as a requirement within God's Law, nor do we find it as a liturgical or civil illustration of God's moral law, which makes me wonder why theonomists today would mistakenly assume that Paul's "didactic" text is requiring the same for all Christian cultures. Again, as I said in my first post, the historical narratives per se cannot be interpreted as standing laws which are normative for Christians ethics in all generations, but must be interpreted in light of their own redemptive-historical context.

Furthermore, there is actually very, very, very, little evidence that Greek women ever wore "headcoverings" outside of liturgical service. (Older opinions of scholars in favor of such a regular practice have been subject to scrutiny because of more recent archeological discoveries.) And by "liturgical service," I do not mean mere attendance at a worship service. I mean actual liturgical offering of a "sacrifice," a public oracle, etc. But it is precisely there that we run into further problems of 1st century Corinthian culture -- problems which conflict with your argument in favor of "1900 or so years" of headcoverings as being normative for Christian ethics. If your argument is based upon I Cor. 11, modern research shows that both women and men wore head coverings in liturgical worship, and we have evidence of the opposite too. (See Witherington's socio-rhetorical commentary.) And so, in order to argue that such a "didactic text" as I Cor. 11 (as you said) provides justification for believing that specific practice spoken of by Paul was held "pretty uniformly" by the Christian church for the following 1900 years, you need to provide a LOT more evidence other than mere claims of such, and that evidence needs to comport with the 1st century Corinthian context. You ought not pick and choose what is convenient from historical opinion, whether it's the opinions of Matthew Henry, John Gill, John Calvin, or Nicodemus ben Gorion, and construct a morally obligatory "christianized" custom which did not exist "uniformly" in that culture at that time. Paul even says, at the end of that "didactic text," that "If anyone wants to be contentious about this, we have no such practice, nor do the churches of God." 

I thought your position-paper on headcoverings (to which I linked for everyone to study for themselves) was, in fact, a helpful example for others to study and compare in context. That is why I mentioned it in my original post.

In fact, I don't think I would have even mentioned it if you didn't begin your position paper with the following dogmatic statement:

Except for the last hundred years or so, the church has always been in agreement that women should worship with their heads covered, as, indeed the Christian custom was that women should have their heads covered generally.

However recently much of the church in the 'developed' world has abandoned this belief. Instead they teach that the passage was purely cultural, teaches only about long hair, or is irrelevant in some other way. This belief is new and, in my opinion, is, like any other departure from Scripture, dangerous.

Since you seem to be so sure about these truth claims, what evidence do you have to offer the public for supporting a "pretty uniform" practice of head coverings, from the time of Paul in Corinth, for the following 1900 years of Christian worship? 

Book Review: Can America Survive? by John Hagee

Can America Survive?: 10 Prophetic Signs That We Are The Terminal Generation by John Hagee

My rating: 5 of 5 stars

This book is hilarious. This is a gut-wrenching, pee-in-your-pants-from-laughing-too-hard-at-the-bogus-scholarship kind of book. It's funny because he's actually serious! He truly believes the prophecies concerning ancient Assyria are explicitly connected with a modern fulfillment about Iraqi oil and the end of America. And while he's imagining new and creative ways to arbitrarily connect Old Covenant prophecy with modern historical events, he's confident that Jesus is coming to the rescue once America collapses. Make sure to buy the paperback version so that it holds that authentic comic book feeling in your hand while you read it.

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Thinking in terms of "we"

In Acts 2, every day believers met together in the Temple courts, broke bread in one another's homes, and ate together with glad and sincere hearts. Hebrews 3:13 suggests that many years later, Christians were still meeting daily. For this to become a part of our daily living we must develop covenant consciousness; this is a away of thinking that begins with the congregation rather than the individual--that is, thinking in terms of "we" instead of "me". It's in the context of the covenant community that we find rest and restoration.1  

...One of the serious deficits in the broader culture is that people are oblivious to others--it's all about "me." We see this in the way people talk, walk, dress, drive, and so forth. This has seeped into the Church, and, under the guise of "accepting people the way they are," we have allowed them to continue to be the way they are, and thus we contribute to the atrophy of the culture. People come to church, or come late, or fellowship, or serve, or give, or worship, or participate if they feel like it, never considering how this impacts the community. Children have often grown up with this apathy toward others. It is the epitome of immaturity.2 

1.  Randy Booth, The Church-Friendly Family [Nacogdoches, TX: Covenant Media Press, 1012] p. 22

2.  Ibid. pp. 24-5

Bart Ehrman: The Orthodox Corruption of Scripture

The Orthodox Corruption of Scripture: The Effect of Early Christological Controversies on the Text of the New Testament by Bart D. Ehrman
My rating: 1 of 5 stars

Read the book Revisiting the Corruption of the New Testament by Wallace. It clearly refutes a lot of claims and exaggerations found within this book by Ehrman.

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Bart Ehrman: Lost Scriptures

Lost Scriptures: Books That Did Not Make It Into the New Testament by Bart D. Ehrman

My rating: 4 of 5 stars

Like I said in another review, Ehrman doesn't pretend to be Christian. He's not a Christian. But that shouldn't stop Christians from seeing how ludicrous (and even humorous) some of the alleged "lost scriptures" were. I really enjoyed this book even though I don't trust Ehrman's "professional" opinions at all. 

Ehrman implicitly shows how desperate unbelievers (like him) are to present convincing evidence against the Canon of Scripture. There are obvious, self-evident reasons for judging these "lost scriptures" as uninspired, non-canonical, and non-authoritative. The most memorable references come from the alleged "lost" Apocalypse of Paul, which claims that, in Hell, people who "break their fast before the appointed hour" are tortured and hung for all eternity "over a channel of water, and their tongues were very dry, and many fruits were placed in their sight, and they were not permitted to take of them." (p. 295). Also, allegedly, some pastors who do not perform their ministry well are tortured in hell "by Tartaruchian angels, having in their hands an iron instrument with three hooks" with which they pierce the pastor's bowels (p. 294). Other pastors get off easier, and are simply pushed into a pit of fire up to their knees and stoned in the face by angels. 

Similar examples are found in the alleged Apocalypse of Peter, which claims that in hell there is a very deep pit reserved for those who cause premature births, and that pit is filled with "all manner of torment, foulness, and excrement." Opposite to that pit is a place where children sit and shoot lightning bolts from their eyes at fornicators within the pit (see p. 284). Hell also, allegedly, contains places where liars have their lips cut off, people who lust with their eyes get their eyes burned out with red-hot irons, idolaters are chased by demons up and down "high places" for all eternity, and people hang from their eyebrows (!) for all eternity in order to "unceasingly pay the proper penalties" (p. 296).

Almost every one of these "lost scriptures" is just as ludicrous as the examples above. I am grateful that a popular unbelieving critic of Christianity took the time to publish this pathetic attempt to combat the inspired Scriptures of God.

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Bart Ehrman: Lost Christianities

Lost Christianities: The Battles for Scripture and the Faiths We Never Knew by Bart D. Ehrman

My rating: 4 of 5 stars

Yes, you read that correctly. I gave Bart Ehrman 4 stars out of 5. I also know that Ehrman is a heretic, and he wears that badge proudly on his sleeve. In this book he is also open about his own rejection of orthodox Christianity. I think this book is worth reading because it exposes how insignificant and fanatically sectarian the alleged "lost christianities" really were in the first few centuries. Just don't buy into some of Ehrman's "professional" opinions about orthodox conspiracies to hide the "truth," and this book ends up being a very enjoyable read.

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